Forums 2006 Flags on the 48 2006 Signups & Status 2007 signups

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  • SilentCal
    Moderator
    Post count: 1285
    #47347 |

    There has been some discussion among the steering committee members about the possibility of having a “lottery” system for some of the peaks next year. We are undecided as to the exact parameters of this would actually work. Thoughts, ideas, suggestions, comments? Some feedback on this would help us better if we should realistically consider it.

    Darwin
    Post count: 26

    I started on Waumbek and had a great time, but since then I have become more invested in the event. My team has evolved and now look to more challenging peaks. I think having a first come first serve system works best. This ensures that the teams that have been involved in previous years will get the peaks they are looking to do. I anxiously await the sign-ups and write the date on my calender. For the teams that are newer to the event, even if they aren’t assigned “peak leader,” they are still a part of a tremendous effort. However, the non-hiker accessible peaks should remain reserved for those who cannot hike for whatever reason.

    What are people looking for when you say a lottery system? What peaks? Exposed? Shorter mileage? It seems as if a lottery is imposed it may take away from teams that have hiked in previous years, or the teams that sign up at 6:01 pm on the sign-up date.

    Darwin
    Post count: 26

    Sorry about the multiple posts but the site was reading error!

    Sherpa John
    Post count: 71

    A lottery for what? If I am guessing right… your talking about having a lottery BEFORE official sign ups begin. You thrown names into the lottery and if your name is drawn you pick your peak early?

    Or… a blind draw to choose peaks??

    Jaytrek57
    Participant
    Post count: 263

    Though we might not be there yet, or for a while, it is healthy for us to discuss different ways of looking at things.

    The lottery would be for peaks. Everyone is welcome to sign-up. You could sub-divide the lottery. Group A peaks (hard), and so one Group D (easy).

    The idea or thought behind a “lottery” type system addresses some points.

    1. Particpants are signing up for the event and not necessarily for the peak. Although there is nothing wrong with that.

    2. There would be an element of anticipation, that could help with PR, word of mouth, and community. Have a period of a couple weeks, months…then the big day.

    3. It would be more fair. Yes, first come, first serve is fair to a degree, but it does favor people that already know, the “fast-fingers” and those lucky enough to be at a computer at that time.

    4. It may better serve us with coverage…although the event is doing great with that.

    Again…who knows….

    At some point I was bored and tossed the idea out there…I think if we ever reach a “tipping” point with the number of people involved, we will need to do something…

    Until then…keep the ideas coming.

    Peace.

    mtnpa
    Post count: 41

    @Jaytrek57 wrote:

    …I think if we ever reach a “tipping” point with the number of people involved, we will need to do something…

    Peace.

    It seems that right now there is a good balance between the number of people signing up and the number of peaks to be covered. As time goes on and more people become interested we may find that peaks fill up. The current system favors those already involved who know that most peaks are taken during the first hours of the sign-up period. This could discourage newcomers who may feel shut out. I think it will be quite a challenge to design a lottery that will encourage new blood while being fair to those who have already given time and effort to this event.

    Jaytrek57
    Participant
    Post count: 263

    All good points Mtnapa!!

    Hope you are well!

    peace.

    mmChris
    Keymaster
    Post count: 880

    @mtnpa wrote:

    … I think it will be quite a challenge to design a lottery that will encourage new blood while being fair to those who have already given time and effort to this event.

    You’re right about that my friend!

    dirt_girl
    Post count: 303

    I am passionately against any type of lottery, pre registration or reserving peaks for any reason!!! :angry:
    Other than peaks that have been established for the handicapped and scouts.
    💡
    I am all in favour of people hiking the highest peaks in their home states on the same day as the 9/11 Memorial Hike! 😀

    Sharing these hikes on this site or maybe a sister site?
    :flag:

    SilentCal
    Moderator
    Post count: 1285

    Jaytrek’s idea has been the one that we have discussed before. I can’t see that we would do all peaks in this manner. I was thinking more along the lines of leaving 12 peaks in the lottery system, 36 peaks open to all. This is not set in stone by any means but we’re just hoping to get some feedback from participants.

    For 2007, We will certainly have the three alternate access peaks available again. (Cannon, Washington, and Wildcat D) We’ve had requests for all three peaks this year by folks who cannot hike this year but do wish to participate.

    I also think that we will allow youth groups to pre-register as well.

    Brownie
    Post count: 34

    @SilentCal wrote:

    Jaytrek’s idea has been the one that we have discussed before. I can’t see that we would do all peaks in this manner.

    I also think that we will allow youth groups to pre-register as well.

    I do not think a lottery system should be done and I do not think peaks should be reserved in most cases.
    If you play favoritism to some, then you will eventually fall into many causes.

    I was a Boy Scout for many years, so I applaud the efforts of these groups to represent the FOT48.
    However, pre-registration for these folks is kind of discrimination.
    Why just only Scouts?
    Which is my point, that other interests could easily organize and request the same.
    Do they get to pick any peak they want for pre-registration? If so, then that is quite unfair to all others.
    Perhaps there could be a select, small, dedicated list of peaks available for pre-registration, by lottery, if there has to be any pre-registration at all.

    As far as the rest of “standard registration” goes; the current system seems to work.
    If you have vested interest in the event, then you will find a way to be online for your peak, or your back-up peak, right at the moment registration opens.

    This is the only fair way to do it, otherwise organizers run a beaurocratic nightmare of decison making, which is in itself unfair to conduct.
    In fact, these decisions may open a perverbial can of worms by inviting the public to participate in an event by a private set of “rules”, incorporated by the founding members of FOT48.
    Is this a registered non-profit organization?
    If not, does it now need to be?
    Would we then solicite memberships and then cast votes for these very important decisions?

    My suggestion is to keep this event as simple as possible.
    Which is the current status quo.

    Brownie

    2004 Lincoln
    2005 South Twin
    2006 Garfield

    Jaytrek57
    Participant
    Post count: 263

    Interesting points Brownie.

    The “lottery” idea….is just that…an idea.

    I tend to “play” things out to the nth degree and my “logistics” inner demon is always asking, “What If?”

    My thought process along these lines was. What if we had 100 + people wanting to be PC’s?

    I do think we need to be a bit flexable with some special requests (youth groups, etc.) and treat these requests on a case by case basis.

    If we are to be “black & white” in the expectations, IMHO, it will hurt us in the years to come.

    This is why the Planning Meetings are so important. A chance to set the tone for the year, exchange ideas and plan future strategies.

    As far as non-profit. Others would know better than I, but there is zero money exchanged for anything, so I don’t think it applies here.

    Peace.

    Brownie
    Post count: 34

    @Jaytrek57 wrote:

    Interesting points Brownie.

    As far as non-profit. Others would know better than I, but there is zero money exchanged for anything, so I don’t think it applies here.

    Peace.

    I also can play a devils advocate only to let others realize the possible pitfalls of a progressive endeavour.
    The primary reason I mentioned non-profit, was for the purpose to develop a fair institution where the members can vote in the decision process. Again, not sure it is a good idea, but would be a fair way to conduct the event.

    Great efforts by you all!
    I missed the KOA meet this year and wanted to express these thoughts.

    Brownie

    dirt_girl
    Post count: 303

    I am passionately against any pre-registration or peak reservation other than what was currently established prior to this years event!
    Except, I would completely eliminate the reservation of peaks for Boy Scouts also.
    The “handicapped accessible” peaks is the only resevation that makes sense and seems justified!
    People that are intent on hiking, being a PC or just claiming a peak for their group are sitting at the keyboard, poised, ready to strike the submit button at the precise time registration begins!!!
    I also feel if members want to voice an opinion they have every opportunity to do so. It’s called a forum…I believe, for the most part, the 200 plus Event hikers are happy to have a steering committee take care of issues. People just want to hike with friends and family, be supportive of this event and show a solidarity of patriotisim and compassion for the loss of so many human beings.

    The idea of creating a non-profit, voting, pre registering, peak reserving, formal event ( 😮 ) would contaminate, if not completely ruin, the grass root, first come first serve, undeniably patriotic and benevolent nature of this memorial.

    I am against any type of lottery!! :angry:
    I am against any type of pre registration!! :angry:
    I am against any type of peak reservation!! :angry:

    Now… do you want me to tell you how I really feel? 😀

    dirt_girl

    SilentCal
    Moderator
    Post count: 1285

    I’m willing to go with most of the arguements that I’m hearing on the lottery system. Jaytrek’s idea is one of forward thinking and we’d foolish not to look ahead and try to think what could be problematic and try to come up with ideas to solve them.

    I feel a little opposite on the pre-registration for youth groups. My reasoning for this entails a little bit of personal experience and from what some of the scout-leaders have told me. I was a scout once and the scouting year pretty much follows the school calendar year from September through June. As a scouting unit, I can remember that we did very little together during the summer months since most people went their own way in terms of vacations. Since our signups are usually in mid-July, it’s tough to get a headcount unless you’ve already pre-planned it in May. This happened this year as we had two scoutmasters show up at the meeting and they could give us a real headcount to their group as not everyone had scattered for the summer yet. We also had e-mail correspondence with two other groups prior to the end of June. The timeframe for them just works better to organize their group and where they will be staying in late-May + early June. Waiting until signups start could also cause problems for group with younger scouts who are not as advanced in hiking as we are. No one wants to send young hikers with no experience on a trek above treeline.

    This is a memorial event that we are organizing, not the Olympics. We want to try and include as many people as possible. All ages and experience levels. I think the comments that Brownie, Jaytrek and dirt girl are great. It shows we all want this thing to be a little better than the previous year. This is something that we will have a nice disscussion over at the planning meeting next year. Keep your thoughts coming.

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