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#46736 |
Conversation on and off line have raised a few issues that I hope we can address. I am not trying to stir up big time controversy.
Some people (for example on the AMC boards) have expressed some negative feelings about this event. I happen to disagree and am excited to be part of it. Still, they raise interesting points.
The most valid concern I’ve heard is that displays of patriotism at the first anniversary will be seen as pro-war (esp. pro-war with Iraq). My personal opinions aside, I don’t see patriotism as being either pro or anti-war and I don’t see this event as either pro or anti-war. And yet, people on and off line, pro and anti-war, left and right politically seem to see displays of patriotism as supportive of one side of some of key national political debates.
My main question is: How can I (or we) make it clear that this event is not a pro-war event. To me (and I have joined late in the game) this is pro-American, pro everyone who lost, gave, or risked their lives that day (except for the hijackers) event. Of course the event is anti- the people who planned and executed the attack (this is clear from the mission statement).
Of course, I don’t want to turn this into an anti-war event either… its not an event to be used for partisan purposes.
Both the people who were going to be going with me seem to be backing out. One, a fairly young idealistic man, is clearly backing out because of his concerns about the jingoism he connects with Patriotism. I’ve told him that just because stinky people and things present themselves wrapped in the flag, it doesn’t tarnish the Flag itself. I’ve told him that he should feel free to bring some other flag or symbol (even a peace flag) so long as it is not bigger than the flag which might reflect either one aspect of the diversity of people who died in the twin towers, or the diversity of the opinions and people in this country.
What do y’all think?
Pedxing, I don’t think that flag flying on the 14th (it has been mentioned as a day of remembrance) is any more “Pro-War” than celebrating our Independence on July 4th is a demonstration that we “Hate The British.” I don’t call it jingoism. Sitting in an Olympic stadium, waving a flag and yelling U-S-A, shoving it down the throats of foreign visitors…now that’s jingoism.
Like you, I’m going to carry a flag to a summit, display it for a couple hours, hang around nearby to explain the purpose to any uninformed visitors. I’m proud to do this, as I am proud to display the flag in front of my house (for the past 35 years). I make no excuses. And I respect the opinions of others even if they disagree with mine. This flag represents the right to have that differing opinion, without persecution, and I respect that as well.
I am going to enjoy the day, say a small prayer for the 9/11 victims and their families, and the military personnel and their families that help to insure our freedom to have our own opinions.
Max
soap box answer:
I simply see the flag as pro-American. I am not ashamed to be an American, and have no problems displaying the flag at any time. I feel that this in no way reflects my opinions on current policy. America is bigger than any government. America is the people. If others see the flag as one of repression, or “pro-war”, or “we are all for W”, then that is their own misconception of what America is about.
No problems here. Fly the flag, live long, and prosper… No wait, wrong channel!Sometimes the AMC boards can be a real turn-off. While they are useful for me to glean information from more experienced trekkers, they always seem to have a competive snipe-fest about them. Everyone is completely entitled to their opinion whether positive or negative on this subject. We all have our own individual reasons for partaking in this event, whether it be patriotism, personal healing, sense of accomplishing a goal or whatever. If doing this means that certain members of the hiking community will be unhappy or bring up trauma that they would rather have or believe we support a war with Iraq, then maybe we should cancel the event. To them I say “Get over it. The terrorists have obviously beaten you!” . Many people forget that thousands of veterans have lost their lives to protect the freedoms we enjoy and I’ll be dammed sure honored to carry the flag that covered my US Marine Father-in-law’s casket and fly it proudly from Cannon. Some of us just got reasons for doing this. 😀
I was personally a little “traumatized” by a couple of the posts on the AMC boards myself. Then I noticed that a couple of the negative posts were written by a couple of people who obviously had not bothered to read the mission statement or the FAQ’s.
All of us remember where we were when we first heard about the planes hitting the WTC. My 15 yo daughter was sitting in on the second week of her jrROTC class when someone brought the news to the colonol that maybe they should turn on a televison. Long after the other kids had put it out of their minds, she and the other cadets are still hearing about it….and about the war we are currently fighting. Yes, in spite of everything, she signed up for the class again this year. She has gone on with her life…she goes to school, works, hangs with her friends and does everything a girl her age should be doing. But she hasn’t forgotton the images, she hasn’t forgotton that innocent people died, that parents lost children, that children lost parents. She wants to remember, even if it means she’s going to cry when she does it. She’s wise enough, even at her age to know this is something she doesn’t want to forget. She was given the choice of whether or not we should participate. We’ll be there.
We want to participate in order to help us remember. Some things should never be forgotton–concentration camps, race riots, the Cold War, Vietnam, (bad enough) and the way many Vietnam Vets were treated upon coming home (even worse), the WTC….By forgetting, we will once again allow these things to happen. This event has nothing to do with politics, war, peace. It has everything to do with the fact that for whatever reason, each of us decided to unite for a common purpose. In this case the flag is simply a symbol of Unity, a sign of remembrance.
Congratulations to everyone involved for getting this event organized. I’m sure it was no easy task. Thank-you for allowing my daughter and I to participate. I’ll be praying for good weather and clear skies so that I can see as many flags as possible(Guess I’ll bring the GOOD binoculars, even if they are a little heavier 😉 )The American Flag has had a presence in my home ever since I can remember.
To me this is a symbol of PRIDE and has too many emotions and feelings to list.I have planned to participate in this event for some time now and have been silent. I never thought of this as having any political ties. The hike to me is a day of remembrance, and to reflect on everything that has happened in the world.
I have seen many signs going up for special church services and community activities on Sept 11th. This event simply is a group of people (each having their own reasons) who are choosing this as a way of reflecting on what has happened. I am PROUD to be a small part of it.
To those who feel that this is any different, I would suggest that they THINK on their own and pay less respect to TV and the media. The topic of a possible war with Iraq has been given a lot of attention, (while it may happen) has it happened yet?
A few years ago we where trying to figure out why there where so many shark attacks (ummm…..where there any more than in the past years?) The current topic is child abductions (is this anything new, nope, just the topic of the day).
:dunce:
Unfortunately, today in the world of political correctness, some one will take offense to almost anything.This is one reason why our country is so great. Everyone is entitled to make and form their own opinions.
“Patriotism” – devoted love, support, and defense of one’s country; national loyalty.
Well, we have another derogatory post on the AMC boards. It’s obvious that BrainDamage is trolling so it’s best to not even respond. It amazes me that on the one year anniversary, people can pick apart every little thing other people do. BrainDamage assumes we are trying to “turn 9/11 into another three day shopping weekend”. In another post on the AMC HJ, BrainDamage states we will “wave a flag for 2 hours, maybe get on TV, then eat pizza and drink some beers”. Is this guy over the top, or what?
maineguy seemed to sum up BrainDamage’s post the best with, “So we are going to fly the American flag for a couple of hours. How can anybody possibly take exception to that?”. Unbelievable. 😕
I agree with you Greg. I was hoping that folks would not respond to some of the posts on the AMC boards.
I will be hiking Eisenhower on Saturday as a way to honor and remember all of those who died last September 11, as well as all of those who have given so much of themselves to the recovery and healing process. For me, the flag is a visual symbol of that rememberance, and a way to honor all Americans. I don’t see anything political in it – (not like during the Vietnam War when flag-wavers definitely had a political agenda). I see this as a way to remember, to somehow show our support to those families who lost loved ones and that this show of support will, in some small way, help to ease their loss.
I can’t believe it. I did the exact opposite of what you should do with a troll post like BrainDamage’s. I responded. 😳 Sorry. I couldn’t help it.
Sometimes you just have to respond to a troll… to set the record straight for everyone else. Second, Brain Damage isn’t exactly a troll, He’s posted a bunch and does so on a variety of topics (including things like gear). When there is controversy, he is likely to post in ways that generate more heat than light.
No one knows yet where this war on terror will lead the country and no one knows yet exactly how the sides will shape up in the internal debate… its not surprising that people who tend to get intense would post in such an inflamed an inflammatory manner.
@pedxing wrote:
Second, Brain Damage isn’t exactly a troll, He’s posted a bunch and does so on a variety of topics (including things like gear). When there is controversy, he is likely to post in ways that generate more heat than light.
He may contribute in other threads, but it’s clear he was trolling in that initial post. He knew it would get a reaction.
And just look what that thread evolved into! Conspiracy theories, big brother, civil liberties, political correctness. :blink: I’m not touching that one again…
Agreed. Some of the complainers need to get out and hike a bit more, burn off some of that hostility. :argue: In fact, I just got back from my daily jog up and down the trails of Mt. Wachusett in Princeton, MA. And I feel good! All tuned up for Carter Dome. Give us a wave on Saturday Greg! 😀
I’ve heard all the comments, both pro and con about these events. I am participating for many much deeper reasons, but when all is said and done, this is it:
I am participating because I can choose to do so.
Safe hiking everyone!
SherpaK -
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